Tuesday 2nd August 2022 Today's Issue Of TD Rex Plots Loyalty Scheme

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Tuesday 2nd August 2022Today’s issue of TDTravel Daily today has sevenpages of latest industry newsplus a full page from ItalianNational Tourist Board.Peiris out at IHGE X C L U S I V Eintercontinental HotelsGroup’s Director of Operations,Australasia & Pacific, RuwanPeiris, has left the business undera restructure which has seen hisrole made redundant.Two new staff are beingrecruited instead: a Director ofOperations - Luxury & Lifestyleand a Director of Operations Premium & Mainstream.Matt Tripolone, who was namedIHG MD Australasia & Pacific11 months ago, announced themove to stakeholders, saying the“significant change to our overalloperational model.best preparesus for the future” as well asaligning with the IHG structure inother markets.He paid tribute to Peiris, saying“Ruwan has been a wonderfulpillar of our business since 2015,and has done a fantastic job ofleading the operations of ourAustralasia & Pacific estate overthe past seven-plus years”.“He is known for his excellentrelationships across the industryand he has played a significantpart in growing our estate to itscurrent 70 hotels, including theoperationalisation of four newbrands into market,” he said.Peiris finished with the IHGbusiness last Fri.Travel DailyRex plots loyalty schemeRegional Express hasconfirmed plans to launch a newfrequent flyer program in thecoming months, with the movehoped to build on the carrier’sstrong performance in Jul which itsays was driven by its new travelagency agreements (TD 24 Jun).The deals included pacts withHelloworld, Webjet, ConsolidatedTravel, Corporate TravelManagement and Flight Centre,all of which kicked off on 01 Jul.Rex Executive Chairman, LimKim Hai, this morning confirmedplans to further boost the RexBoeing 737 fleet (TD breakingnews), noting that revenue on jetroutes had doubled in Jul with astrong 86% load factor thanks tothe travel agency relationships.“I have every expectation thatour numbers will continue togrow sharply over the next fewmonths, since Jul has seen only30% of the committed monthlypassenger contributions fromthese tie-ups,” he said.The Rex turboprop networkalso performed strongly, withrevenue and passenger numberscomparable to pre-pandemiclevels but with a significant upliftin revenue and load factors.Lim said the regional success“also validates our decision tostand our ground against Qantas,which flooded the market onmarginal regional routes in anattempt to destabilise us”.“Not only did their plannot succeed, but we are nowhaving record passengerse info@traveldaily.com.auand revenues on our regionalnetwork by concentrating on thelarger regional routes in directcompetition with them,” he said.Lim said Rex intended to expandregional operations to “otherregional cities that are currentlymonopolised by QantasLink”,anticipating the new MelbourneDevonport route launching thismonth which has been operatedsolely by QF for 17 years.The Rex Chairman said thecarrier had “made a vow torepay the people of Australiafor keeping it afloat with thegovernment support we receivedthrough COVID”.“We hope that we have startedto repay this faith in some smallways by providing a service thetravelling public can count on,”he added, noting Rex’s on-timeperformance which is in “starkcontrast to the total chaos anddysfunctionality of the othercarriers”.t 1300 799 220Now in Kim’s OrbitOrbit World Travel has landedthe signature of respected travelexecutive and former TravelEdgeCEO Kim Wethmar.In her new strategic advisoryrole with the business, Wethmarwill work alongside Director LisaStory and Executive DirectorMichael Chase-Smith to drivestrategic change in an increasinglymore complex industry.“To bring the expertise andtalent of someone like KimWethmar into our business at thistime is vital,” Story said.“There is real opportunity nowfor Orbit to remodel the businesswith our excellent team andensure they are enabled andconfident to manage what is amore complex travel landscape.”Wethmar was the CEO ofTravelEdge in 2019 when it wasbought by Helloworld, at whichpoint Traveledge was the largestprivate TMC in the country.HLO has since sold the businessto Corporate Travel Management.w www.traveldaily.com.aupage 1

Piece-base system of baggagefrom and to Asia, Europe,and America Tuesday 2nd August 2022Canada’s Campbell retiresDonna Campbell (pictured),the iconic face of Canada withinthe Australian travel industry,this morning announced herretirement at the end of thismonth after more than 25 yearswith Destination Canada.Campbell’s career in tourism hasspanned 44 years, starting outon Vancouver Island where shewas an assistant for DestinationBritish Columbia.Making her way intointernational marketing, she waseventually seconded to openDestination Canada’s regionaloffice in Singapore in 1997.That in turn led to her “dreamrole - Managing Director ofDestination Canada in Australia,”Campbell said.She headed up the local officeof what was then known as theCanadian Tourism Commissionuntil 2005 when she took on aVancouver-based role with theorganisation - but then two yearslater returned once again as MD,Australia from 2007 until 2010.In 2010 the CanadianGovernment closed down itsoffice here, replacing it with aGSA operation led by Campbell’scompany DC & Associates whichhas held the contract since then.“My heart is full, and I canhonestly say I’ve got no regrets,having worked in an industrywhere people give their personalbest every day,” Campbell said.A spokesperson for DC &Associates told TD furtherupdates on the new GSA situationpost Campbell’s retirement wouldbe provided in the coming days.Emirates to STNCATO golden tix!Emirates has resumedservices to a third Londongateway, with daily Dubai-LondonStansted services taking off.The expansion boosts EK’sLondon operations to nine dailyfrequencies, including six servicesto Heathrow, two to Gatwick andnow one to Stansted.EK said the added serviceswould help meet market demandand offer customers more travelchoices and connectivity.This week’s CATO Travel TriviaMasters on Thu night is a sellout,but a few COVID cases have ledto cancellations meaning TD cantoday exclusively offer six “goldentickets” to the highly anticipatedevent at Sydney’s Hyatt RegencyHotel from 6pm on 04 Aug.The last-minute opportunity willbe won by the first six readers to“Name three CATO members” send your answers via email tocatotrivia@traveldaily.com.au.TO CEL EBR ATE 25 YEA R SSTA R AL L IANCE IS G IVIN GTR AVEL A G ENTS 25 CHA N CE STO SHA R E IN.Sales Executive OpportunitiesBrisbane & MelbourneSamoa Tourism Authority invites proposals from experiencedsales and business development specialists and agencies toprovide strategic sales planning and management services.The mobile Sales Executives will be based in Brisbane (and willcover Queensland) and Melbourne (and will cover Victoria). 5,000 WORTHOF BIRTHDAYPRIZES!Click here to find out more!Click here to enterYOU’RE INVITED TO REDISCOVER THE WORLD OF A&KFeaturing Luxury Tailor-Made, Small Group Journeys, Luxury Expedition Cruising andWings Over the World, along with some very exciting announcements and prizes!TRADE EVENTS: Brisbane 16 August Sydney 17 Aug Melbourne 18 AugustREGISTER TODAYTravel Dailye info@traveldaily.com.aut 1300 799 220w www.traveldaily.com.aupage 2

Experience the TGV EST High speed line from Paris to Reims/Metz/Nancy/StrasbourgTravelling in excess of 320kmph it’s the smartest and easiest way to travel.Tuesday 2nd August 2022 250 agent incentiveShe Evolves is offering agents 250 per person commissionon each ticket sold and a freepackage for every 10 ticketsbooked to its debut women-onlywellness retreat, hosted at theShangri-La Yanuca Island in Fijifrom 26-30 Oct - click here.agent.raileurope.comyour dedicated Rail PartnerClub Med chilled for DecKIMBERLEYCRUISES1 Night FOCAccommodationClick for more informationPhoto credit Great Escapes Charter CompanyXNo paper planesAustralia’S new low-costairline Bonza has partnered withdigital aviation solutions companyTrustFlight to become the firstairline in the country to introducepaperless aircraft technical logs.The move to fully digitise thetech logs will save over 58,000sheets of paper each year,allowing the carrier to reduceoperating costs, minimise waste,and save time.TrustFlight will also provideBonza’s Continuing AirworthinessManagement Organisation withfleet technical managementsupport that will help it launchwith low-cost flights.Club Med has revealed moredetails about its upcoming ClubMed Kiroro resort in Hokkaido,Japan (TD 01 Jul), which iscomprised of two existingproperties re-designed andre-branded to form one giantintegrated snow resort.Club Med Kiroro Peak (pictured)will open in Dec, followed by ClubMed Kiroro Grand in 2023, withthe two buildings only a threeminute buggy ride apart and intotal offering 400 guest rooms.Boasting the most annualaverage snowfall in the country,guests will have direct access to23 pristine ski courses, as wellas snowboarding, snowshoeexperiences, and a snow park.Guests can also enjoy a rangeof facilities including workshops,nature centres, an indoor resortpool with a dedicated kids zoneand an in-house public bath.Where LUX.Meets ECO.3 Gourmet Meals Daily100% Solar PoweredOceanfront Rooms & Private DecksRainwater HarvestedAir-Conditioned & Hot ShowersZero Waste KitchenSpa, Magnesium Pool & ActivitiesOrganic Spa TreatmentsAdults Only Whitsundays Great Barrier Reef1800 765 687 www.elysianretreat.com.au stay@elysianretreat.com.auTravel Dailye info@traveldaily.com.aut 1300 799 220w www.traveldaily.com.aupage 3

It was the best of ThamesTuesday 2nd August 2022Cost the biggest factorNew research from Booking.com has revealed that cost isthe greatest consideration forAussies when it comes to bookingpost-pandemic travel, followed bysafety and convenience.Almost half (47%) of theAustralians who were surveyedidentified cost as their maindeterrent to travel, highlightingthe rising cost of living, with67% saying access to flexiblecancellations and clear refundinformation was also a significantmotivator to booking travel.Despite the concern of cost,seven out of 10 Aussies (72%) arestill eager to prioritise domestictravel in the next 12 months, and40% said they are likely to travelinternationally at some stage overthe next six months.Melissa Ellison, Area ManagerAustralia at Booking.com said,“it is clear that whilst travelhas been reinvigorated withborders now open, cost of livingpressures across Australia are stilla significant factor in the decisionto travel again.“Tourism operators andgovernments at all levels needto continue to work togetherto provide sustainable andaffordable options for reenergising the sector.”QR ADL to NZ saleQatar Airways has launcheda new sale to encourage transTasman travel and celebratethe expansion of its AdelaideAuckland route (TD 27 Jun).The airline is now operating fiveweekly flights between the twocities, with return fares startingfrom 699, with guaranteedflexibility also available under thesaving.The deal is available untilnext Wed for travel until theend of next month - for furtherinformation, CLICK HERE.VisitBritain has ramped upits marketing efforts in a bid toboost visitation to the countryduring the Birmingham 2022Commonwealth Games andbeyond.A trade famil recently took placein the West Midlands region, ofwhich Birmingham is a part, incelebration of the Games.A small number of top traveltrade partners from Australiawere taken on a tailorededucational visit to region,giving them the chance to tryits tourism offerings first-hand,while experiencing the electricatmosphere of the Games.Tourism experiences rangedfrom a self-drive boatingexperience in Birmingham, to aculinary course in the heart of thecity’s Balti Triangle, a street-arttour of Digbeth, a productionof Richard III at Shakespeare’sbirthplace Stratford-Upon-Avon,and a visit to England’s largesthistoric site, Kenilworth Castle.Pictured at Cadbury World inBirmingham are Sasha McAlister,The Travel Corporation; EllieMellor and Tom Marlow, WestMidlands Growth Company;George Christakis, VisitBritain;Sarah Gerrand, Helloworld Traveland Tim Holden, Flight Centre.BE THE FIRST TO LIVE IT UPTo c elebr ate the lau nc h of N o r weg ian Pr i ma this m o nthwe’r e r ewar d i ng Tr avel Par tner s wi th D ou b le Po i nts !70POINTS35POINTSEarn up to 70 Points on all Norwegian Prima and Norwegian Vivadeposited bookings made between 1 - 31 August 2022*.Earn up to 35 Points on all other destinations depositedbetween 1-31 August 2022*.LEARN MOREDOWNLOAD TOOLKIT*Conditions apply, visit partnersfirstrewards.ncl.com for detailsTravel Dailye info@traveldaily.com.aut 1300 799 220w www.traveldaily.com.aupage 4

A cruise to rememberTuesday 2nd August 2022Sorrento openingTM appoints BDMInterContinental SorrentoMornington Peninsula hasheralded a “new era of seasideglamour in Victoria” when itopened its doors to the publicthis week.The hotel was unveiled as theluxurious new centrepiece of‘The Continental’, a fabled 1875landmark site that has undergonea transformation into a precinctincluding restaurants, bars, and awellness centre.InterContinental SorrentoMornington Peninsula boasts108 rooms, an impressiveMediterranean pool deck area(pictured), 24-hour fitnesscentre, elegant events areas, tworestaurants, a beer garden, andspeakeasy venue to enjoy latenight entertainment.TravelManagers has madea new appointment to support itsrecord growth, with Kylie Wilsonto join as a Business PartnershipsManager with the NationalPartnership Office team.Wilson will help provide a rangeof support to TravelManagers’network via enhanced supplierrelations, business planning, andbusiness development support.The company plans to add twomore BDMs soon.Kiribati finally opensThe Kiribati border reopenedyesterday, after a closure of twoyears and four months.The shutdown devastatedtourism operators across Kiribati,but there is optimism for asustainable return to normalcy,the destination believes.Flights to Kiribati from Australiawill operate fortnightly aboardSolomon Airlines from Brisbane.QUARK Expeditions BDM forAsia Pacific, Tenille Hunt, is backin the country after enjoyinga thrilling nine-day voyage ofSouthern Greenland aboard thecruise line’s boundary-pushingUltramarine vessel.“I’m honestly not quite surehow to put into words thisamazing adventure,” Huntenthused, adding that among thetoo many highlights to mentionwas a heli-hiking adventure,visiting the remote localcommunities, as well as being theco-captain of a helicopter flyingover the Greenland ice sheet.“With no voyage line thisexpedition was left to thecraftsman ship of our expeditionleader, captain and team, and boydid they deliver, they are the bestin the business without doubt,”Hunt added.Ultramarine (pictured inset)boasts a range of cutting-edgeexpedition cruise facilities,including two twin-enginehelicopters, a wraparound deckfor maximum viewing pleasure,an internal hangar that canquickly deploy its 20 Zodiacs,as well as a high-resolution LEDscreen Ambassador Theatre.COOK ISLANDSFALL IN LOVEBOOK NOWSAVE UP TO 1,000 PER COUPLE Book By 31 August 2022 Moana Sands Lagoon ResortI ND E PE N D E NT H O L IDAY PAC K AG E EX P ERT STravel Dailye info@traveldaily.com.aut 1300 799 220w www.traveldaily.com.aupage 5

AFTA Updatefrom Dean Long, CEOTuesday 2nd August 2022WindowSeatWELL this might be a toughtravel reputation to simplyshake off for pop sensationTaylor Swift, who has beenaccused this week of excessivelyusing her private jet.According to a report compiledby sustainability marketingagency Yard, Swift racked up1,185 times more than theaverage person’s total annualemissions between 01 Jan and29 Jul, taking off 170 times infor a total of 16 days in the air.The popstar’s total flightemissions for the year stands at8,240 metric tonnes, however,Swift has blasted the claims,suggesting her jet also getsloaned out to other people.“To attribute most or all ofthese trips to her is blatantlyincorrect,” her publicist said.Boxer Floyd Mayweatherranked as the second-worstoffender for private jet CO2emissions, also earninghimself the dubious honourof taking the shortest flight,with his 60 million set ofaerial wheels emblazoned with“Mayweather” livery flying toVegas in under 10 minutes.Other celebrities copping heatover private jet usage on thelist included Jay-Z, baseballerAlex Rodriguez, Blake Shelton,Steven Spielberg and Oprah.But the winner for mostoutrageous sheer opulenceInstagram post has to go to KylieJenner, who shared the belowshot of herself and partnerTravis Scott mulling which oftheir private jets they shouldchoose.Travel DailyTrip.com goes greenTrip.com Group hasannounced it intends to launchmore than 10,000 low-carbontravel products as part of itspledge to build a greener futurefor travel and tourism.The global online travelagency also listed other majorsustainability goals movingforward, including the promotionof greener travel concepts,engaging 100 million travellersin low-carbon practices, andreducing carbon emissions acrossits own operations.The sweeping set of objectivesfollowed a recent surveyconducted by the OTA whichshowed that travelling sustainablyis among the most crucialconcerns for travellers.Trip.com recently partneredwith CO2 flight emissionscompany Chooose, and hadpreviously signed a strategicpartnership with Travalyst.With Intrepid co-founder DarrelWade at the helm as Chairman,Travalyst aims to encouragetravellers to make more ecoconscious choices, and is led byambassador Prince Harry.Last week(and asreported inTravel Dailyyesterday),theAustralianFederationof TravelAgents(AFTA)releasedits Annual Report in a new formatfeaturing a range of key insightsabout our performance andmember profiles.While last year does seem along time ago in light of thecurrent pace of recovery, the lackof clarity of a border reopeningstrategy and no demand meantwe still needed governmentsupport.As we detailed in the report,no other sector has been able tomatch the combined efforts ofAFTA and our members duringthe COVID-19 pandemic.Even at our lowest, we havebanded together to unlockfinancial support and concessionsfrom the government whichprimarily supported independentsmall and medium-sizedbusinesses.No one entity can claim allof the success, but AFTA isincredibly proud to have led thisengagement.AFTA prepared the detailedcost analysis which Treasurycould approve and our memberactivations and working acrossthe travel and tourism industrysealed the deal.Since becoming AFTA CEO inOct last year, the body’s successhas been based on the ability tocollaborate, consult and act.It has been about workingtogether to harness all theexperience and enthusiasmavailable to deliver results for all.The ability to operate in thisfashion is also based on thecontinued support of the broadchurch that makes up AFTA.ATAS accredited membershipincludes our 166 tour operatorsand wholesalers comprising 14%of the total, along with 842 retailtravel agents (71% of the total),83 corporate travel agencies/TMCs (7%), 59 mobile agents(5%) and 35 online travel agencies(3%).This allows AFTA to speakon behalf of the whole sectorwhen in Canberra and otherjurisdictions and deliver thegovernment action we require.Lastly, tomorrow AFTA, inconjunction with the FederalDepartment of Agriculture,Fisheries & Forestry, are hosting awebinar on what we need to keepthe border with Bali open.The webinar will be held on Wed03 Aug at 2pm (AEST).No prior registration is required,just add THIS LINK in your diaryto attend.Short-term actionVictorian tourism groupsare urging action on shortstay properties, with The Agereporting the Vic Governmenthas been asked to follow otherjurisdictions such as NSW andlimit the number of days suchproperties can be listed online.The AccommodationAssociation of Australia andthe Victorian Tourism IndustryCouncil argue this style of lettingis hampering the economicrecovery of businesses, some ofwhich have been forced to limitoperating hours because of staffshortages, and has reduced thenumber of houses available tolong-term tenants.Towns across rural Victoria havestruggled to attract employees,with the cost of rental propertiessoaring during the pandemic.e info@traveldaily.com.aut 1300 799 220Thursday 25 August 2022 Hyatt Regency Sydney#L VECRUISEw www.traveldaily.com.aupage 6

RAIL IS ON TRACK FORA BRIGHT FUTURECLICKto readTuesday 2nd August 2022Tas ready for shipsTasmania is gearing up toreceive 150 cruise ship visitsduring the upcoming 2022-23cruise season, a new schedulereleased by TasPorts has shown.The breakdown of visits will see78 vessels bound for Hobart, 33for Burnie, 23 for Port Arthur, sixfor Bell Bay, six for Coles Bay, andtwo for Port of Devonport.“Independent economicresearch confirms that thefinancial contribution of a singlemedium-sized cruise ship visit tothe state is around 650,000 pervisit,” TasPorts Chief ExecutiveOfficer Anthony Donald said.MONEYWELCOME to Money, TD’s Tuefeature on what the Australiandollar is doing.AU 1 US 0.703The Aussie dollar ralliedconsiderably yesterday toreach US70.3 cents, howeverforecasters expect it to remainfairly volatile in the short-term.The global economic outlookmust improve in order for theAustralian dollar to maintaina stable upward trajectory,while the stalled growth of theChinese economy and globalrecession fears continue tocause AUD volatility.Wholesale rates this morning.USUKNZEuroJapanThailandChinaSouth AfricaCanadaCrude oilMYLES STEDMANinvestigates the rapidlyrebounding rail sector.Travel is being reshapedNew holiday trends are setto reshape the travel industry,according to consumer insightsreleased at Nine’s State of theNation travel event last week.Aimed at providing newconsumer travel trends withinAustralia post-pandemic, theevent saw The Future Laboratoryprovide insights on the horizonfor the industry, which includeda culture of remote working,a passion for having a positiveimpact on cultures and theplanet, and a desire to pushthe boundaries of bespokeexperiences that will drive futuretravel trends.The presentation suggestedpeople are now splashingmore cash on their holidays,with Qantas seeing a strongdemand for premium cabins,and Abercrombie & KentAustralia revealing a 25-30% risein the value of transactions byAustralian travellers.The event also explored thechanging role of agents, withresearch revealing nearly half ofall American travellers who rarelyor sometimes used an advisor inthe past are now more likely touse one post-pandemic.“We’re seeing people spend alot of time online planning andfinding inspiration, and thencoming to a trusted travel advisorand working with them to curatenot just one trip, but the nextthree or four trips, because if youare solely focused on what you’redoing next, you will probablymiss out on that experience,” saidVirtuoso’s local General ManagerFiona Dalton.We are looking forADVERTISING OPERATIONS ANDCUSTOMER SERVICE CO-ORDINATORPermanentBased at our Macquarie Park, NSW office. WFH on Fridays.Full time or school hours (negotiable)This is a key role in our team, with a variety of tasksworking on the development of our daily editions,Travel Daily, Cruise Weekly and Pharmacy Daily.Requirements :Highly organised with an eye for detail 0.703 0.573 1.109 0.685 92.53ß25.40 4.75911.59 0.903US 98.62Great communication skillsPenchant for design, familiarity withAdobe Suite would be highly regarded.Full job description available on request.Salary commensurate with experience.Send your CV tojobs@traveldaily.com.auAdvertising and MarketingSean Harrigan and Hoda Alzubaidiadvertising@traveldaily.com.auKomodo fee protestKomodo tourism businessesin Indonesia are protesting pricehikes to the national park fromUS 13 to US 250, with localtourism businesses stating have“no other option” but to strike.Eventscoming EventsTD Events is the new way toshowcase your product orservice to the travel industry.Livn Group - details comingsoonMissed an event? Don’t worry,you can catch up at any time.RECENT EventsAmadeus - the latest traveltechnology trends with KayleneShuttlewood and Lance Batty CLICK HERE to view.Switzerland Tourism “WinterMagic Tour” with Livio Goetzand Lisa Maroun - CLICK HERE.“The Tide Turns for Cruise”with CLIA MD Joel Katz and JillAbel from the Australian CruiseAssociation - CLICK HERE.Norwegian Cruise Line “TheGreat Cruise Comeback” CLICK HERE.Quark Expeditions showcase ofUltramarine - CLICK HERE.AFTA CEO Dean Long ExecutiveInterview - CLICK HERE.Entire Travel Group with BradMcDonnell and Greg McCallum- CLICK HERE.To organise an event foryour company, enquire attraveldaily.com.au/eventsTravel Daily is part of the BusinessPublishing Group family ofpublications.EDITORIALEditor in Chief and Publisher – Bruce PiperAssociate Editors– Adam Bishop,Myles StedmanContributors – Nicholas O’Donoghue,Anna Piper, Jenny Piper, Janie Medburyinfo@traveldaily.com.auProduced each weekday since1994, Travel Daily is Australia’sleading travel industry publication.Travel Daily is a publication of TDaily Pty Ltd ABN 34 108 508 765. All content fully protected by copyright. Please obtain written permission to reproduce any material. While every care has been taken in the preparation of TravelDaily no liability can be accepted for errors or omissions. Information is published in good faith to stimulate independent investigation of the matters canvassed. Responsibility for editorial comment is taken by Bruce Piper.www.traveldaily.com.auTravel Dailye info@traveldaily.com.auBusiness managerJenny Piperaccounts@traveldaily.com.aut 1300 799 220Suite 1, Level 2, 64 Talavera RdMacquarie Park NSW 2113 AustraliaPO Box 1010 Epping NSW 1710 AustraliaTel: 1300 799 220 ( 61 2 8007 6760)Travel Daily operates by paid subscriptionto people within the travel industry - signup at www.traveldaily.com.au.w www.traveldaily.com.aubusiness events newspage 7

Club Med chilled for Dec cluB Med has revealed more details about its upcoming Club Med Kiroro resort in Hokkaido, Japan (TD 01 Jul), which is comprised of two existing properties re-designed and re-branded to form one giant integrated snow resort. Club Med Kiroro Peak (pictured) will open in Dec, followed by Club Med Kiroro Grand in 2023, with