Transcription
A11 u s e s of t h i s manuscript are covered by anagreement between ths Regents of t h e University ofC a l i f o r n i a and Kathleen Norris, d a t e d December 10,.1958.The manuscript i s thereby made a v a i l a b l e f o rr e s e a r c h purposes,No p a r t of t h e manuscript may bequoted f o r p u b l i c a t i o n without t h e w r i t t e n permissionof t h e L i b r a r i a n of t h e U n i v e r s i t y of C a l i f o r n i a a tBerkeley.
A s part of the program o f c o l l e c t i n g l i t e r a r ymaterials on California authors, following a reconrmendation of Professor James D, H a r t , the ManuscriptDivision of Bancroft Library, headed by Dr. RobertE, Burke, wrote t o Y i s , Kathleen Rorris on November20, 1953, and suggested a s e r i e s of tape-recordedinterviewa concerning hor l i f e and memoirs,ma.Norris indicated approval, but no immediate arrangementa were completed,d f t e r seeing Mrs. Norria onRalph Edward's t e l e v i s i o n program, 'ThisLife,'i s YourProfessor H a r t wrote t o her on October 13,1955, agaRn suggesting an interview and her answerwas cautiously favorable,The interview was placedunder the r e c e n t l y organized Regional C u l t u r a lHistory Project of the General Library, directed byDr, Corirrne i l b , D r ,art requested Roland E-Duncan, who had conducted a s i m i l a r interview i nP a r i s i n 1953 with Alice B, Toklas, the companion
of Gertrude Stein, to handle the Norris interview, and introduced them in the spring of.1956 at Mrs.Harris's home, 1650 Waverley Street in Palo Alto,The first series of three interviews occurredon March 10, 13, and 17, 1956.Two or the meetingswere on Saturday mornings, a convenient time forP'as. Norrists crowded schedule, and one on a Tuesdaymorning.Eer home i n Palo Alto was located o n squiet suburban street, set back amongst spreadingoaks, and bordered by a neat lawn and attractiveflower beds,The large house, with glass doorsleading to an inner court, was reminiscent of,HewEngland,The living r,oom, where the interviewswere held, was spacious and comfortable,Toassure spontaneity, the microphone was placedbeside a vase and the recording equipment behlnda chair.interview,Mrs. Norriswas a charming person toHer long experience with expresston isverbal as well as literary, and the anecdotes andreminiscences c a m easily, requiring only occasionalstimulation or direction.Her sharpness of recallwas amazing for a lady in her active seventies,. .Above all, her lively humor and warm human undepstanding were proJected and preserved by t b.---.,. .--*s d.&.
--impersonal microphone,Her three pet Pekingese andher Chinese cook made an occasional impreeaion o nthe sound tape with a bark or a knock, respectively.The interviews were interrupted during thesummer of 1956 while Mrs. Norris made an extendedEuropean trip and were not resumed until the fallof 1957.The recording s6ssions concluded with twoSaturday meetings, o n September 21 and 28, 1957.Later, Mr. McClelland, Mrs. Norrists secretary,notified the Regional Cultural History Project ofcontract complications with her publishers concerningthe use of the interview information, and legalnegotiations delayed completion of the manuscriptuntil the fall of 1959.Urged by her publishersand stimulated by these interviews, Kathleen Norris,the successful novelist, has since prepared.he autobiography for publication,Roland E. DuncanRegional C u l t y a l History ProjectGeneral LibraryUniversity o f California at BerkeleySeptember 9, 1959
. -.,,TABWG OF CONTENTS.ivKATIEXEN NORRIS, IMPORTANT DATESEVENTSA19)KATRLEEN NORRIS, WORKSWS GILMAN NORRIS, WORKSvilixxlilxivFFMTK NORRIS, WORKSE.CiiLY CALIFORNIA: THE MORONEYS AM) THETEOWSONS.1CHILDHOOD I N SAN PRAMCISCO15MILL V A L r m23ORPHANS: F I N DE S I E C mUNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA48SAN FRANCISCO F I R E , 190655THE LITERAfCY WORLD64R e d C r o s s Stories-R e p o r t i n g f o r the C a l lPIARRIAGETHE NORRISESNEW YORK AND A WRITING CAKEERB e i n n 1 l ; ass a Writer. .iTABLE OF CONTENTSC.-.
Teresa end William engtThe Writera of That Day.116Eleanor Porter and Pollyanna118Fannie Burst123Pzs. Alice Meynell123Vachel Lindsay125Theodore Dreiser127Some Women Writers129Sinclair Lewis134Ida TarbellWAR AND TRBVBLELINOR WnIESOCIAL AND POLITICAL VIEWSSpanish-American WarMucbakersWar and PeaceWomen's International League forPeace and FreedomMothers of America182America First184William Randol hHearst191Second World War195.
COMMENTS ON WRITING.A i d of Charles G. NorriaPublisher: Doubleday & Co,Problems of Creative ArtistsPreferences i n Her Own WorkAutobiographyClare Boothe LuceGeorge CreelChangiw Literary TrendsCONCLUSION
Born:July 16, 1880.San Prancisco.Childhood i n San Franci scotYouth i n M i l l Valley:Passing of Parents:1880-1891.1891-1900.Deceder, 1899.Odd Jobs i n San Francisco:University of CaUfornia:1900-1905.1905.,.Early l i t e r a r y acquaintances i n Bay Area andreading background f o r l i t e r a r y career.San Francisco earthquake and f i r e :Red C F O S work.Hewspaper Work:E%mdner1906-1909.Marriage : April 30, 1909.L i t e r a r y World of New York:W r l t i n g Career:April, 1906.Bulletin, C a l l , - andNew Pork.Pre-World War I.Hew Pork-Port Washington: 1809-1916.B l r t h of son, Frank:1910, New York.S i s t e r Teresz and Bene' Family Relations.World War I:1916-1919.Writing Career:1916-1920.European Travels and L i t e r a r y Acquaintances.!Qm Rancha t Saratoga:1920-3945.
. .Carmel L i t e r a r y Colony; B e a r s t and Saa Sirneon,P u b l i c a t i o n of 'Certain People of importancem(1922) and " L i t t l e b h l o "(1925);dutobiographical "Noon (1925).Writing Career:Saratoga:1920-1945eS o c i a l and P o l i t i c a l A c t i v i t y :19208-192508Women's I n t e r n a t i o n a l League f o r Peace andFreedam,Yo.the sof America,America F i r a t *World War 11: 1939-1945Death of husband, C. G. Norrle:Pal0 Alto*W r i t i n g Career:Palo Alto:July 25, 1945,1946 t o present.
Mother (1911)The Mch Mrs. Burgoyne (1912)Poor Dear biargaret Rirby (1912)Saturday' a Chf l d (1914)'Ifie Story of J u l i a Page (1915)me Heart of Rachel (1916)Martie, the Unconquered (1917)S i s t e r 8 (1919)H a r r i e t and the Piper (1920)Beloved Woman (1921)Certain People of Importance (1922)Lucretia Lombard (1922)Rose of the World (1924)The Callahana and the Murphy8 (1924)Boon (1925)L f t t l e Shlpa (1925).The Black Flemings (1926)Hildegarde (1926)me s e ami ( i s m )Barberry Buah (1927)- ,
lZle Aol of Being a Mother (1927)My Best G i r l (1927)Beauty and the Beast (1928)What Price Peace (1928)The Foollrrh Virgin (1928)Storm House (1929)Red Silence (1929)Home (1929)b5other and Son (1929)Passion Flower (1930)Margaret Yorke (1930)me Lucky Larrences (1930)'Beauty i n L e t t e r s (1930)m e Love of J u l i e Bore1 (1931)Hands F u l l of ' l v i n g(1931)Belle Mere (1931)Second Hand Wife (1932)Younger S i s t e r (1932)Tree Haven (1932)W a l l s of Gold (1933)My California (1933)Wife f o r Sale (1933)Angel i n the House (1933)Victoria [Play] (1934) anhattm- ovSonge(1934)
Ihe Seoret of Hillyard House (1947)High Holliday (1949)Morning L i g h t (1950)Shadow Marriage (1952)Miss Harriet Tomaend (1955)In A Glass Darkly (1951)I
Ibe -tour(1915)Salt, or me Education o f G r i f f i t h M a m a (1917)Bra88 (1921)Bread (1923)Pig Iron (1925).Zelda Marsh (1927)Seed (1930)Zest (1933)Hand8 (1935)Bricks wlthout Straw (19%).F l i n t (1944)Bohemia. Club "Grove Playa'Ibe Ront ofthePbiliatinea (1922)A Gest of RobinHood (1926)
Moran of the Lady Letty (1898)McTeague (1899)B l i x (1899)A Man's Blo sn(1900)!the Octopus (1901)The P i t (1903)'1210 Responsibilities of the Noveli a t (1903)Vandover and the Brute (1914)Collected Worka (1903 and 1928)
Norrir:'Po go r e a l l y back t o the San Pranclsco of myf i r s t memories i r t o go back t o a veryf a s c i n a t i n g place t h a t w d s almost colonial l ni t s whole quality.It was a group of peoplewho knew each other and who had a11 come frombackgrounds t h a t were the b e s t of EarternbackgromdsI ' m not speaking of .the richest.They weren't Okier either,' you how, and theyweren't immigrants.They were people w h o hadcome on. a great adventure, and I thtnk we a l lf e l t the s p i r i t of that.A t t h a t time, of courre,t h e r e were s a i l i n g vessels coming i n the Gate a l lthe time, and the docks were old moden dockrr i t h these vessels t i e d up a t them.The c i t yhad wooden aidewalk8 - and dirt s t r e e t s , many ofthem, and the whole s p i r i t was of g r e a t prideand excitement.We all wanted t o know why ourpeople came here, and how they had the couraget o come a l l the way over t h e mountains down t othe coast.Duncan:It was a very great trek, wasn't i t ?
Imagine If they hadn't come t o the coaat l Someother nation could ao e a s i l y havw pro-empted thatwhole s t r i p , l i k e Chile, and then we would havehad a crippled nation.ocean t o ocean.t o us.We wouldn't have gone fromO f course that didn't man muchBut i t was a romantic part of t h e world,because we had w r i t e r s even i n the beginning.We had Bret Harte, and Uark R a i n , and we had avery charming w r i t e r of Southern aketches, a mannamed Charles Warren Stoddard, and very s h o r t l ywe had Robert Louis Stevenson.Up there i n aoard ding house, I think he was up on Eddy Street,and my own people were young, very young.Mygrandfather, my mother' s f a t h e r , was twenty-one.Duncan:When d i d your granafather.Norris:'Ihey got here i n '51, e a r l y '51.And my grand-mother came from Memphis and my g r a n d f t h e rwaaZnglish-born but rrith a very Irish name, so therewas Ireland right back of him.Moroney.H i s name wasPaul Maroney.Duncan:Where was he born I n England?Norris:He was born i n London.And h i s f a t h e r h e l d mas o r t of position a s rn i n s t r u c t o r i n some schoolI n London, but the f a t h e r had been Irish.f a t h e r was born i n County Mayo, I think.ThsButi n a l l events, they came, this young grandmotbqr,
Norria:she was eighteen, and my grandfather, who r a aabout two years older.covered wagons.two?"And they brought two. . .And when I s a i d t o them, m y-- i t was a family party of--aboutmy grandmother reminded me t h a t they had t o havethe material t o s t a r t .!heyhad t o have n a i l s m dhamrners and saws and rope and seed and the beginnings of a new l i f e i n a new world.they didn ' t know.A world t h a tAnd of course they had al soa few c h a i r s t h a t h e r mother gave h e r and atable and a hi@boy and a l l these were t o a t a r tthe new story.And they went t o Marysville, andthere mg grandfather had a farm.!then the siltof the two rivers, the.Yuba and the Feather, halfcovered the farms up there.& came dorm t o SanFrancisco and wrote an essay t o the e f f e c t thathe thought California s o i l would bear f a t andvegetables.He was a pioneer.Then they wereone of the San Francisco families.My u t h e r waaborn i n '52.Marysville was named f o r a Mary Covillaudwho was very close t o my grandmother.And therewas eome debate a s t o w h t h e r i t would be c a l l e dSexton f o r Grandma o r Parysville f o r Xary Covillaud.And i t was t h e story of t h a t family that they had.been l e f t ' behind i n the Donner party,80.re.
Norria:r e a l l y were mixed i n w i t h the whole business of.the e a r l y s t a t e .My mogher,'wh WBI a lovely person, rememberedt h e flood of '62, 1:.think, when she would have beenabout eight, and a l s o remembered t h e famous b u l lt h a t got caught i n the quicksands.And the e h i l d r e nwatched i n horror a l l afternoon whlle they struga e d t o save this b u l l .O f course a l o t of e t o r i e swere those e a r l y California a t o r i e s .The wholepoint of t h a t s t o r y was t h a t the f a t h e r said t othem, "Now you've a l l got t o go i n t o t h e houseemHe didn't want them t o see t h e b u l l subinerged d a i l ot h e children were looking on, and I believe themewas aome t a l k of shooting the bull.So t h e chil-dren a l l walked obediently t o the house and turnedaround, and tha b u l l was following them.In fu yhe had pulled himself out of the creek andraclt r a i l i n g tbe children.Mother had a l o t of those o l d s t o r i e e offloods, and even of Indians.Not anything alarmingabout Indians, but of eourse we thought t h a t wasvery scary.And when t h e o r i g i n a l farmhouse wasi n the p a t h of the waters, my grandmother morethan once moved her ohildren t o the roof and J u s twatched the waters swirl away.p a r t of t h e i r s t o w .That was, of course,men they eame t o San
.Norri 8:Francisco, and.Duncan:When dl& they come?Norri stLet me think.Mother went to t h a t convent i nMarysville 'ti1 s h s w a s about f i f t e e n , and thenshe was moved down t o San Francisco, and she weptf o r h e r beloved nuns.So if h e was f i f t e e n , thatwould be about 1866 o r ' 6 7 .Shen m y f a t h e r 3ud come a long way t o g e t t oSan Francisco.H i s mother had married i n Ireland,an I r i s h s a i l o r , captain, and when she followedhim with her maid t o Honolulu, his ahlp had n o tcome in. She was going t o meet him there.1Ag i r l o r seventeen, and she had a l i t t l e b l a hmaid who afterwards married and did very r e 1 1 i nthe Islands.he never came.Pope8a.I dAnd she waited f o r h e r husband andShe wrote t o t h e Pope, and thet h a t under the circumstances, since ah6was not i n f a c t his wife (although they weremarried, he had le f t right a f t e r t h e marriage),she was t o w a i t three and a half yeara.whole time, not the h o b seven years.Not theSo she did,and then ahe married my New Gngland grandfather.And t h a t was where my f a t h e r was born, a subjecto r Klng Kamehameha 111.He l a t e r had t o be nation-alized.Father waa born I n *45.'.*-.*. .
I waa i n t e r e s t e d , l n reading s b i t about yourDuncan:.father, that he had t r a v e l e d other places aswellNoaris:.COh, yea.You see, a s a child, i n Honolulu, t h qs t a r t e d f o r Europe, and they r e n t t o Chlna, rpdof course they went i n s a i l i n g vessels.And whenthey got t o China, t h e r e was some complication.about the m a s , and my grandmother, d roa 8ridowad then, - d i d n ' t think i t w a s safe t o takeh e r two am& 1 children, I think they r e r e sevenand f i v e , across t o &rope.So she stayed 5nChina f o r about a year.Duncan:Where r e r e they living9Norria:!bey steyed rlth a very d e l i g h t f u l Scotch fePnilycamed YacBain.'And I was able t o thank theTheMacBaina many, many, many peers l a t e r .When r efamily l a s t i l l there, in Shanghai.But this was I nrent, we a l s o r e n t t o Pelping.Shanghai.dnd ao then &e brought t h e childrenthrough Vladivostok, and across R u s i a . Veryprimitive times.It took about a month.Andthey had t h e i r food w l t h them, and they got t orel land, and then she stayed there w l t hher o mfamily, w i t h h e r children, f o r about another year.So my f a t h e r did have that background.Duncan:Hor o l d was he when.:.:. . . . . . . . . .:'--.:. :.
Norris:1 think he waa about seven when they l e f t Hawaiiand perhaps about ten when they got t o Ireland.,They stayed more than a year w i t h friends I n China.Tsavel i n those days; you see, wasappeared.turned up.-- people dls-Nobody h e w where they were u n t i l theyI don't how, I t h i n k it might beinteresting, t o f i n d out how many people never bidturn up.Because there were a l l kinds of risks.And i t was s a i l i n g veasels.Duncan:Was i t one of the old clipper type?Norris:I imagine i t must have been.they d i d not go throu*But a t a l l eventrr,the Canal.Whether therewas a Canal passage i n the f i f t i e s I ' m not mare,.the Suer, b u t o e r. .%ncan:No, the Suez was 1871.Norris:Well, you aee, t h a t was years before it.So theycrossed Russia and Father could remember very wellc e r t a l n of the aapects of Czariat Russia, andM a mother r a m *t quite anxious t o see the Kremlinbecause she was, of oourse, I r i a h ' a n d very Catholic,but she f i n a l l y decided t h a t the dhlldren couldsee the Kremlin.Duncan:And so they did.This must have been a very great t r e k acroa8Russia, because this would be before the railroad.Norria:(emphatically)Oh, she h e a t have' been a womanof a b s o l u t e l indomitable courage.She seemedto.,.,.,. .,. ,.
think of *at--she ranted t o do and do it. And I'.a p p o s e dhe thought, "I want q motherm--,no,her mother wa8 gone, but, "I rant my f a d e r andbrothers t o aee these chil&eoew So ahe went toCork, and r i @ t outaide of Cork i r a dairy c a l l e dSunrose, and t h a t was the family dairy, theO 'Keef 6 8'Duncan:Her maiden name wa8 O'Keefe?,Norris:OWeefe.Marie Teresa O'Keefe.And h e r mother'rname was Kathleen, and her daughter was Kathleen,and t h a t ' s how I got my name.But my seconds i s t e r r e s Maria Teresa, because she had impres8edupon t h e family a tremendous per8onelity.Myaunt t o l d me t h a t when ahe was a l i t t l e girl,remembered t h e o l d dining t a b l e i n the old familyhone, and t h a t m e r e was a rose and a dhamroekand a t h i s t l e on t h e b i g heavy corners, but therose had been cut away.So there was a blank.This child, Kathleen, remembered t h a t .And Isuppose they u a i d t o her, "We 're s i n g t o havenothing t o do w i t h t b n i l i a hrose i n t h i s hou8eenAnd 8he remembered that.So t h a t h e r backgroundwas Hawaiian, Cbineae, with a dash of Ru8sian, andof course my f a t h e r Ts too, and then of course NewEngland.The s t r i c t e s t type of New England.And t h i s very lovely Irish grandmother must
have been an atom bomb i n t h a t p a r t i c u l a r oon-Norria:nection.!be j loved her.Ihey named I d o n t tknow how many couains, c . o. u s e t t e 8 ,!bm8a f o rher.And she m a t have just brought a breath ofsome thing e n t i r e l y new, because my great-grandf a t h e r , Abraham Rand. Thompson of Boston, he ma8a doctor,And he was talking one night about bowhe hated people who couldn't stand on t h e i r o mf e e t and couldnl t take care of themaelves andhad t o depend on othera, and my grandfather, rrhowas young, of course,. said, "Father Zbompson,t h a t i s n ' t what you t o l d Mrs, Murphy last weekem."And he said, "Who t o l d you about that, Tem8afmSbe said,I' was m a e y r p h y * " she had put a-.shawl over her head and darkened up her face al i t t l e and gone i n and gotten twenty d o l l a r s frommit.And she was Just waiting t o t e l l h i m aboutSo t h a t h e r e a l l y was a very wonderfulperson*Then she came west, and I a nder how theycame, about t h e , year '56 or ' 5 7 .Howr,uldtheyhave come? No railroads*No r a i l r o a d yet u n t i l a f t e r the C i v i l War.Duncan:Norria:Duncan:.P l e y came atage coach:Across the Oregon. trail?'1 all
Norris:the way dom t o San Franuiaco.My f a t b e r rasabout t h i r t e e n o r fourteen, and my aunt waa t h r e eo r f o u r years younger.And my f a t b r then f l n -i & e d h i s education here, went I n t o t h e bank, andmy aunt was the b e l l e of t h e e a r l y seventies, Iguess.I t r i e d t o put her i n t o a book c a l l e d"Miss Harriet Townsend,"-- the f l i r t ,the Vic-t o r i a n g i r l tho i s pretty, has a l o t of beaux,i s engaged t o three or four of them a t once, andhas no more 8cruge o r conscience, j u s t aimplygiddy.And of course she was p r e t t y well educated.She epob a couple of languages end was musicaland she wae quite a l i t t l e star i n San Francisco,And then my grandmother opened a boardlng houseon Polk, no, on Bush and Stockton, and i t r a ac a l l e d "me 'bompson House."respectable.And i t was super-And t h a t was quite a novelty. Thatwoul
Childhood in San Franci scot 1880-1891. Youth in Mill Valley: 1891-1900. Passing of Parents: Deceder, 1899. Odd Jobs in San Francisco: 1900-1905. University of CaUfornia: 1905. . . , . Early literary acquaintances in Bay Area and reading background for literary career. San Fr
