WIXLIB

HALLGREN:My husband.CAMPBELL:Did he always drive or . ?HALLGREN:Most of the time.CAMPBELL:So you were a passenger, you would have been on that side of the car when youwent by Sally?HALLGREN:CAMPBELL:Uh huh.When you went by you said she honked and waved so she evidently recognizedyou.HALLGREN:Oh yeah.CAMPBELL:Did you see when you went by her then did you go, where?HALLGREN:Oh well, you know what Sally was like when she was drunk, I avoided her.were no two ways about it.ThereI tangled one time too many with her in a bar so assoon as I could, no doubt she was drunk, so we went down and headed all the waydown Michigan Street to where Michigan and Superior Street meet and then comeback around and pulled up and parked behind where Peterson Finance is so thatshe wouldn't even know Iwas home.I didn't want her around.We got in afight one night in a bar because I couldn't remember her kid's birthday andshe went after me with a beer bottle so I stayed away from her.CAMPBELL:Pretty heavy drinker?HALLGREN:Her?CAMPBELL:Yeah.HALLGREN:Oh ho, should ask if she was pretty heavy sober because it would be closer.CAMPBELL:When you got home did your daughter tell you that she had called?HALLGREN:Uh huh, they said she'd been calling all night long.She wanted them to goover and get a bottle for her and bring her over there, to her house, and theykept telling her they couldn't because I wasn't home so they couldn't leavethe little boy at home alone.That was nothing new though.bi ?CAMPBELL:And did Virgil drink quite aHALLGREN:Not really, he took streaks where he would go out, but not real heavy, no.CAMPBELL:Did you ever go drinking with him?HALLGREN:Oh, yeah.CAMPBELL:I don't know.HALLGREN:I was raised in the West End.G. WALLER:Okay, I'm going to have to correct the statement I made.How could you live in the West End and not.You had indicatedthat you had been at either Captain Cliff's or the Northern Bar, would that bethe North Pole Bar?7

HALLGREN:North Pole Bar.G. WALLER:Okay.The other thing that you mentioned in your initial report was that whenyou went to work the next day, at the Trucken Inn, your boss, Dick Rogenbuck,told you that Jerry had been in the previous night after the bar closedlooking for you.Do you recall that now?HALLGREN:Yeah, yes, now I do when you said it.G. WALLER:Okay, did Jerry ever tell you that?HALLGREN:No, not that I remember.Wouldn't really have been any reason to tell me hewas in.G. WALLER:But you're certain that that night you didn't run in to Jerry at all?HALLGREN:Not that I remember, no, I stayed away from him when he was drinking too.G. WALLER:Was he ornery too?HALLGREN:No, just big brother.G. WALLER:Why don't you explain that.HALLGREN:Jerry has a tendency to tell me what to do, when to do it and how to do it whenhe's drinking and I just don't like it so I stay away from him.G. WALLER:But Sally was argumentative, hey?HALLGREN:Oh yeah.In the last, you know, the last two or three years.She wasn't likethat before, but I think too much drinking for too long and it got to her andthen she started, like her kid's birthday, you know.So me being my nastyself, I said, well do you remember when my kid's birthday is, and that's whenshe went after me with a beer bottle, you know.G. WALLER:Where did that happen?HALLGREN:Oh, that was out in Oliver.G. WALLER:How long before her disappearance?HALLGREN:Two or three years.G. WALLER:Did she drink every day?HALLGREN:I don't think she missed too many.G. WALLER:And when she drank did she drink . ?HALLGREN:Heavy.G. WALLER:She got drunk every time she drank?HALLGREN:G. WALLER:Yeah.How did Sally and him get along when she drank?HALLGREN:Sally and who?G.WALLER:Sally and Jerry?8

HALLGREN:Well, most of the time pretty good.G. WALLER:Okay, and when they didn't what did they argue about?HALLGREN:Well, for awhile it was over me because Jerry was putting money into the,well, where The Doll House is now, I had the restaurant there and he washelping me finance it and the last year or so that was some of the argumentbecause she didn't want to put the money into it.G. WALLER:She resented Jerry giving you money?HALLGREN:Yeah.G. WALLER:Was he part owner or was he just bank rolling it.HALLGREN:He was financing then.G. WALLER:Did she ever confront you on it?HALLGREN:No.I was a very good friend with Sally for many, many years.I met her whenI was like 13 or 14 years old, long before her and my brother ever got married.G. WALLER:Since this happened, have you been told by anybody what she and Jerry arguedabout that night?HALLGREN:I didn't know they did.G. WALLER:Well, she called up Bob Bogie's wife and said she was going to leave Jerry.HALLGREN:Oh, that was normal when she was drunk.G. WALLER:Why don't you explain that.Every time she got drunk she was going to get a divorce, she was going to leaveHALLGREN:him, she was going to find some guy with money and take off, and that was allthe time when she was drinking.Sober, she never said anything like that.G. WALLER:Who else has heard her say that prior to that night?HALLGREN:I'm sure my mother and dad have.G. WALLER:Anybody else?Probably my kids.HALLGREN:I wouldn't doubt they heard it.I know her kids sure heardit enough times.G. WALLER:Just when she was drunk?HALLGREN:Dh huh.G. WALLER:How did they get along otherwise?HALLGREN:Real good.Now you're sure the car was on the side of the Seaway?G. WALLER:HALLGREN:G. WALLER:HALLGREN:Right.Was the bottle contained in anything when he, Virgil, walked out?I'm pretty sure it was in a bag, in a brown kind of bag.9

G. WALLER:Had you ever been up in Virgil's room?HALLGREN:Oh yeah, hundreds of times.G. WALLER:For what?HALLGREN:Have a drink.G. WALLER:Okay, what was his relationship with women?HALLGREN:Well, he spent a lot on them.G. WALLER:Okay, how did he spend a lot on them?HALLGREN:Well, mostly, very bluntly, most of the women he went with were whores and hewas paying them, and I know he shelled out a lot of money to I don't even knowwhat her last name is, but her name was Marie.Superior before.She was a redhead that lived inShe was going out with him for a long time and I know he putout a lot of money to her.G. WALLER:How old was Marie?HALLGREN:Oh man, I know she's quite a bit younger than I am.I suppose she's got to beprobably in her thirties.G. WALLER:And she was a prostitute?HALLGREN:Dh huh.G. WALLER:Do you know where she worked out of?HALLGREN:I think independently.G. WALLER:Where did he meet her, do you know?HALLGREN:I imagine, when I first met her, now that probably would have been about thesame place he did, was when the bar was in, the Bolero Bar was in.That'swhere she ran out of for a long time.G. WALLER:Bolero Bar?HALLGREN:Uh huh, that's many years ago.G. WALLER:Is that known by a different name now?HALLGREN:It isn't even in existence any more.G. WALLER:Where was it?HALLGREN:On 3rd and Tower.G. WALLER:I'm not familiar with where that it.HALLGREN:Well, you know where the restaurant is there?G. WALLER:Yeah.HALLGREN:Kitty-corner, across the street over towards Banks Avenue there.be there.G. WALLER:How tall a woman was she?10It used to

HALLGREN:A little taller than me.G. WALLER:How tall are you?HALLGREN:5'9".G. WALLER:So she was a pretty tall lady.HALLGREN:Close to 6 foot.G. WALLER:What type of build?HALLGREN:Nice.G. WALLER:Nice?HALLGREN:Urn huh.G. WALLER:I meant, average, medium.CAMPBELL:Got red hair, hey?HALLGREN:Yeah.G. WALLER:Did you see Virgil in her company a lot?HALLGREN:Yeah, for quite awhile cause he was very seriously talking about wanting toget married to her.G. WALLER:Where did you see her with him?HALLGREN:Oh, over across at the Midway.Isaw them go into the hotel, yeah, I was athis apartment once when she was there.G. WALLER:And he paid her for . ?HALLGREN:Services rendered.G. WALLER:For services rendered, okay.HALLGREN:No, no, IDo you know any other prostitutes that he saw?really couldn't name any names.He used to talk about so and so hadbeen at his house, but I could never tell you a name.G. WALLER:Did he ever hit on you?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:Never?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:Do you know if he ever hit on Sally?HALLGREN:Not that I ever knew of, no.As a matter of fact they didn't even really likeeach other.G. WALLER:Why would it be that they were down by the Port Terminal then?HALLGREN:Sally was drinking.G. WALLER:Okay, explain that.HALLGREN:Well, she didn't mind Virgil when she was drinking cause she could get anotherbottle from him.When she was sober, she didn't like the guy.11

G. WALLER:So she'd go down there with him?HALLGREN:I don't know why they'd be down there, no, but I know that she picked him up atthe hotel, and I saw last, their taillights were headed down toward where theylive, down toward 21st, 22nd, down that way.G. WALLER:And they were going west on Superior Street?HALLGREN:Vh huh.G. WALLER:Did you actually see Virgil get into the car?HALLGREN:Ah, , I don't remember if I did or not, no, I really couldn't swear toit.G. WALLER:Now let's go back to this that she put up with him when she was drinking.HALLGREN:Vh huh.G. WALLER:If Virgil hit on her do you think she would have gone someplace with him?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:To have relations with him?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:You're certain?HALLGREN:I'm sure.G. WALLER:Did you ever know her to run around at all?HALLGREN:Not at all.G. WALLER:Never heard any talk concerning her being involved with anybody else?HALLGREN:I never did.G. WALLER:Did you know of any arguments between her and Jerry where that was the issue?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:So you don't have any idea why they'd be down there?HALLGREN:Not unless Virgil was buying drugs down at the boat.Vh uh.He might have been downto check out to see if there was any boat in that he was.I know, the word onthe street was anyway that he was buying his dope off the boats, the foreignboats when they come in.G. WALLER:Okay, who specifically did you hear that from?HALLGREN:I don't know, I don't know.My kids for one thing talked about it because myShawn used to drive Virgil down there now and then.Well, that was beforethat, but she used to drive Virgil, but who I specifically heard it from, Icouldn't remember now.G. WALLER:It's just street talk you hear, you know.Well, on these occasions when you were in Virgil's room, did you ever see anynarcotics?12

HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:Did he ever offer any to you for sale?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:Did he ever talk about drugs in front of you?HALLGREN:No, he knew what I thought of them.G. WALLER:Okay,No, he knew I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.thisstreettalkthat you heard,wasthat beforeor after hisdisappearance?HALLGREN:Before.G. WALLER:Had you ever been at Jerry and Sally's house along with Virgil?HALLGREN:Oh yeah.G. WALLER:How many times?HALLGREN:I suppose a dozen really.G. WALLER:And what was the purpose of his visits to their house?HALLGREN:Oh sometimes we'd go down and pick him up, pick up a bottle and he'd come outto the house with us and he'd bring his beer with him and we'd all sit and havea few drinks.G. WALLER:Now when he sold bottles after hours, did he do it for profit?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:He didn't make any money on it?HALLGREN:No, you paid what he paid or else you just replaced the bottle.It was just aplace to go to get another drink, you know.G. WALLER:Do you know of anybody that ever went to get a bottle from him, a female, thathe hit on in lieu of payment?HALLGREN:No, I don't.G. WALLER:You don't know of anybody?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:Would you say that when Sally was sober that she wouldn't have anything to dowith Virgil?HALLGREN:Right.G. WALLER:Did she ever tell you why?HALLGREN:No, she just didn't like him.G. WALLER:Okay, do you know why she didn't like him?HALLGREN:Uh uh.G. WALLER:How do you know then?HALLGREN:She told me she didn't like him, but she never said why.13

G. WALLER:She didn't say why at all?HALLGREN:I didn't really like him either.I couldn't really say why either, you know,just you like some people and some you don't, you know.He used to come in nowlike at the truck stop a lot of times over the years, he'd be drunk and he wasobnoxious when he he'd get real drunk, you know, and I suppose probably thatwas why.G. WALLER:How would he get obnoxious?HALLGREN:Dh, mouthy, call you names and it was quite normal with him.G. WALLER:What kind of names did he call you?HALLGREN:Dh, bitch or a whore or whatever happened to come into his mind at the time,and then he'd fall asleep and then when you'd wake him up because his food wasready or because he was going to falloff his stool or something, then, boy,he'd really call you the names for waking him up, you know.I left him lockedin the Derby more than one time at night when we closed up cause I couldn't gethim up.G. WALLER:I'd lock the door and leave him there.When did youfirst become aware of the fact that Sally and Virgil weremissing?HALLGREN:Ibelieve it was the next afternoon cause my mother called me and she saidsomething about Sally wasn't home and I said well I saw her last night, and I'msure that was when I found out she wasn't around.G. WALLER:Did you know that Virgil was missing then?HALLGREN:No, I didn't.G. WALLER:Do you recall how long it was after Sally disappeared that you became awarethat Virgil was also gone?HALLGREN:No, I don't.G. WALLER:Was it a matter of a week or . ?HALLGREN:No, I would say probably the same day or the day after, I'm sure.G. WALLER:Do you recall who told you that?HALLGREN:No.G. WALLER:When did you first talk to Jerry about this?HALLGREN:I think two days later.G. WALLER:You didn I t talk to him that same day?HALLGREN:No, my mother had talked to me and I assumed that she'd called him and told himI'd seen her so I didn't talk to him that day.At this time too, I was goingthrough trouble with my face and going through operations and stuff and if Icould help it, I wouldn't even talk to anybody.I was in pain that, well, badenough I tried committing suicide so you know what I was going through.14

G. WALLER:When was that?HALLGREN:I had it for six years.G. WALLER:When you first talked to Jerry about it where did he feel Sally was?HALLGREN:Well, he didn't really say, but my own self, I figured she'd gone to a moteland bought herself a bottle because she did that more than once so that's whatI figured, so him and I drove allover town looking for her.G. WALLER:You and Jerry?HALLGREN:Yeah, miles, I hate to think how many miles we put on the car in a couple ofweeks time.We were up to Bemidji and everything.G. WALLER:Now you say that she had done it more than once.HALLGREN:Uh huh.G. WALLER:How many times?HALLGREN:Total you mean, like over the time I knew her, oh, two or three dozen.G. WALLER:Where she didn't come home overnight?HALLGREN:No, she'd go and buy a bottle and rent a room and go drink.CAMPBELL:Before we go on any farther, let me change this side on this tape because weare going to run out.The time is 5:16 p.m.and the time is still 5:16 p.m.G. WALLER:Okay, this will be tape number 2,The date is 09-19-83.Now you said that Sally would do it two or three dozen times.What was thelongest she was missing?HALLGREN:Oh usually just an overnight.I think the longest is probably two nights, butJerry always knew then where she was at because she'd stay around town, youknow, and he'd just drive around until he found the car and he'd know where shewas at anyway.G. WALLER:And he'd leave her there?HALLGREN:Yeah, sometimes, sometimes he'd take her home.G. WALLER:And this was when she was drinking?HALLGREN:Yeah.G. WALLER:Was she ever with somebody else?HALLGREN:No, never.G. WALLER:Now, you said that once she went to someplace out of town, did you say?HALLGREN:I said I went out of town looking for her.G. WALLER:Looking for her up in Bemidji, okay, and you went up there with who?HALLGREN:Donette went with me.We took a pciture of her and went, Sally always got herhair done so we figured if she was in Bemidji she'd be in the beauty shop so wewentthrough allthe beauty shopsdrugstores and showed her picture.15in Bemidj i,andgrocery stores,andAs a matter of fact I left one in a grocery

store up there, an all night grocery, a grocery store that was open all thetime cause the gal up there swore up and down she knew she had seen her, so Ihung her picture up and put a little note on it if anybody saw her to pleasecall.G. WALLER:Why did you go up there?HALLGREN:Her mother was from there.G. WALLER:Did it surprise you that, that this period of time had elapsed and she hadn'tshown up?HALLGREN:Oh yeah.I kind of figured that she'd gone off on a real good whing-ding andthen she got a little worried about coming home so we figured she'd be callingany time and say where she was at and we'd pick her up, you know.G. WALLER:But as time went on, how long was it that you decided something else could havehappened?HALLGREN:About, I think about two weeks.G. WALLER:And after that you felt that something had happened to her?HALLGREN:No, I never thought anything had happened to her, I thought she just split.G. WALLER:Did you find it rather strange that she would do that?HALLGREN:Urn, no, not when she was drunk like she was all the time, no.G. WALLER:Even though Jerry and her together had a great deal of assets?HALLGREN:It still wouldn't surprise me.CAMPBELL:Back to when you saw the car by the Seaway, you say you saw the car going weston Superior Street?HALLGREN:Uh huh.CAMPBELL:When did you see the car leave?HALLGREN:Well, we went down all the way to where that split is and come back, and I sawthe car come around the corner and head down west so the time it took us todrive down and come back.CAMPBELL:And then you pulled around the back, went upstairs and your daughter told youabout her calling then?HALLGREN:Uh huh.CAMPBELL:Did she usually carry much money with her?HALLGREN:Sometimes, yes, and sometimes she didn't carry a cent.CAMPBELL:Say like what would she carry if she were carrying money, I mean what are wetalking about in amount when you say sometimes?HALLGREN:Oh, 100, 200 on her.16

CAMPBELL:Okay, how about credit cards?HALLGREN:Boy, I don't even know if they had any.I think they had a Master Charrge, butwhether or not she carried it, I wouldn't know.CAMPBELL:Did she usually carry a purse?HALLGREN:Generally, yes.CAMPBELL:Did she have her hair done every . ?HALLGREN:Around twice a week usually.CAMPBELL:Twice a week?HALLGREN:Yeah.CAMPBELL:Was she pretty particular about her appearance?HALLGREN:Yes.CAMPBELL:I mean always liked to look nice?HALLGREN:Yes, except when she was drunk and then she didn't put on makeup or nothing.CAMPBELL:Did she normally get up in the morning and put her face on, as they call it, IKind of a vain person?guess?HALLGREN:Well, she worked nights, yes.CAMPBELL:Okay, well, when she got up she usually . ?HALLGREN:That would be the first thing.CAMPBELL:Okay, did she use a lot of makeup?HALLGREN:Yes.CAMPBELL:Did she carry a lot of makeup with her?HALLGREN:Yeah.CAMPBELL:For repair jobs as they .HALLGREN:Dh huh.CAMPBELL:As my wife would say.HALLGREN:Nope.

Anybody that was interviewed before and those that had not been interviewed. Uh huh. So we're talking to people that have been spoken to before also. And you were spoke with earlier on the disappearance of Sally and Virgil and before we get done we'll have