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11COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIAHOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVESAPPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE234MAIN CAPITOLHOUSE CHAMBERHARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA56BUDGET HEARINGDEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION789TUESDAY,FEBRUARY 23,10:09 EY SAYLOR, MAJORITY CHAIRMANMATT BRADFORD, MINORITY CHAIRMANROSEMARY BROWNTORREN ECKERJONATHAN FRITZKEITH GREINERDOYLE HEFFLEYJOHNATHAN HERSHEYLEE JAMESJOHN LAWRENCEZAC H MAKONATALIE MIHALEKTIM O ’NEALCLINT OWLETTCHRIS QUINNGREG ROTHMANMEGHAN SCHROEDERJAMES STRUZZIJESSE TOPPERRYAN WARNERDAVE ZIMMERMANAMEN BROWN
ABLEHONORABLEHONORABLEHONORABLEDONNA BULLOCKMORGAN CEPHASAUSTIN DAVISELIZABETH FIEDLER (VIRTUAL)MARTY FLYNN (VIRTUAL)ED GAINEYPAT TY KIMEMILY KINKEADSTEPHEN KINSEYLEANNE KRUEGERBENJ AM IN SANCHEZ (VIRTUAL)PETER SCHWEYERJOE WEBSTERTTEE MEMBERS:TIM HENNESSEYBARRY JOZWIAKJEFF PYLECRAIG STAATSJOE KERWINMIKE CARROLLJOE HOHENSTEINBRIAN SIMSSTEVE MALAGARI14151617COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT:DAVID DONLEY, MAJORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTORRITCHIE LaFAVER, MAJORITY DEPUTY EXECUTIVEDIRECTORANN BALOGA, MINORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTORTARA TREES, MINORITY CHIEF COUNSEL1819202122232425BRENDA J. PARDUN, RPRP. O. BOX 278MAYTOWN, PA 17550717-940-6528
31INDEX2NAME3YASSMIN G RAMIAN (VIRTUAL)SECRETARYDEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION4PAGE45678910SUBMITTED WRITTEN TESTIMONY11* * *12(See submitted written testimony and handouts13o n l i n e .)141516171819202122232425
41P R O C E E D I N G S2MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:3Secretary,5I ’m here,sir.Good morning.How are you?MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:67are you there?SECRETARY GRAMIAN:4great,MadamI ’m doingMadam Secretary.8SECRETARY GRAMIAN:Great.9MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:10going to be the only one testifying;11correct,You aream IMadam Secretary?12SECRETARY GRAMIAN:Y o u ’re correct.13MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:Very good14To get started,if you would raise your right15hand and I willswear you in,16start with our first questioner.* * * * *171819YASSMIN GRAMIAN,was duly sworn or affirmed.* * * * *202122232425and then w e ’llMAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:Thank you,Madam Secretary.And we wi l l s t art o ff wi t hRepresentativeJesse Topper.REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER:Madam
51Secretary,23good morning.ACTING SECRETARY GRAMIAN:Goodmorning.4REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER:5this past year was certainly a challenge6terms of budgeting.7off part of our budget until November.8was about a day and a half before we enacted9the second part of our budget that we had theWe know thatinWe actually had to pushAnd it10request11600 million dollars worth of bonding,12later was pared back to about 475 million.13T h a t ’s a little bit of a jarring number,14probably what was more jarring was the timing15of it,16shortfalls until right before that -- that17budget was to be enacted.18meantime,19Chairman Saylor did a letter,20know the governor's office got involved as21well,22position to continue with these projects.23from the departmentfor,at the time,and thenbutin that we had not heard about theseyou know,And,in thewe've gone through —the treasurer,as we tried to make sure we were in aCould you kind of explain to this24committee what happened,25pointhow we got to thatfrom a cash flow standpoint and whereI
61w e ’re at at the moment?ACTING SECRETARY GRAMIAN:23Sure.Behappy t o .4So,as you know,we started the year,5the fiscal year with a budget with absolutely6no expectations7situation such as COVID,8the revenue that we saw starting at the middle9of March.that we were going to face aAnd,with a huge drop intypically,the way we actually10do our planning and programming at PennDOT,11i t ’s over a period of multiple years,12three years,13budget that we see from the g o v e r n o r ’s office14and the budget office,15forecasted numbers,16and we set a value for how much w e ’re going to17spend on the construction side,18maintenance side.and we look at the forecastedNow,19two toand based on thewe develop our program,on thewe monitor the revenue on a20monthly basis,21towards the end of the year,22shortfall23adjust our program accordingly.24the reason that,25reduced the size of our letting program to 2.2obviously.And as we getif we have ain the anticipated revenue,back in ’1 9 / ’20,weAnd that waswe actually
71billion.2reduced it to 2.2 billion.3'19 and4actually the normal process.And —'20.as well asAnd so,6COVID situation,7the revenue is going down.840,9through —weBut -- I'm sorry,you know,What happened was,5'20/'21,this iswe got into theand we realized every monthThe traffic was at45 percent of the normal trafficcompared to the prior year.So,10when the traffic goes down,11down,12of the Motor License13treasury.14revenue comesin the gas tax.So,15major declinein our revenue.We were16extremely concerned about what's17happen.18where we are for the remainder of the year.19This is after the seven-month's budget was20passed in June,21Immediately after that,22into where we're going to be,23obviously,24different25out there already,obviously.the revenue goesWe saw less of the revenueFund coming into ourAs you know,75 percent of ourwe saw agoing toAnd in July we started looking intowhich was a reduced version.you know,level,we started lookingbecause,the program was set at awith the proj ects that wereand the revenue drops
81drastically.2going to be around 800 million,3traffic coming back.4were receiving from the Department of Revenue5was around 600 million.Initially,we thought it wasAnd the forecast that weREPRESENTATIVE TOPPER:6but we sawSo,y o u ’re7actually saying it —8enactment of the second budget in November,9revenues were actually getting better?10that whatthe closer we got toI just heard?SECRETARY GRAMIAN:11IsThe revenue were12getting better in compared to where we were in13July.14thought that we were going to have a shortfall15of revenue by 600 million,16forecasts17However,18plans that never materialized.And coming to November,we stillbased on all thethat we received and everything.sir,we were counting on a lot ofWe were hoping that the federal1920government would come through with some kind21of a relief fund before the FAST Act expired22end of September.23conversations24package,25to get s o m e .There were a lot of theabout a highway/bridge CARESand we were hoping that we were going
91REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER:And in2December,the Response and Relief Supplemental3Appropriations Act was enacted,4407 million for highways and bridges.5—6w e ’re at now,7running short -- can you give us a little bit8of a snapshot of where we are at the moment?and that waswhat we enacted then in November,9Whereand nowcan you give us -- as my time isSECRETARY GRAMIAN:Yes,correct.10So,the revenue actually did -- the losses in11the revenue was reduced to 475 million by the12end of November,13our appropriation level was increased back in14the budget in November.15the 407 million dollars16package,17majority of it was spread in our construction18projects19where we are right now.and the reason for that wasOkay?in the federal reliefand that a 407 million,most of it —and our letting projects.Do we have a shortfall20We receivedSo,t h a t ’scompared to21where we were?22reducing our letting program.23chance to take a corrective action right now,24because we are getting into a new budget25season,Yes.And that is why w e ’reWe do have aw e ’re adjusting our program.Our
101letting is not going to be at the level that2we wanted to.We were hoping to be able to do32.2 billion in'21/'22.4it at 1.9 billion,5We are going to keepnot to overexpand.And part of the challenges we were6having,7all the funds were committed to all these8projects,9it.So,sir,was because we were committed - and we had to find a way to pay forwe are trying to be more careful10about how much we are actually appropriating11and spending on our projects.12REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER:I think13reducing the letting until we make14know the cash flow is a good idea.15even so sure that bonding i s n ’t something16right now,17s h o u l d n ’t look at.18legislative standpoint,19the budget,those conversations20not hours.And so,21can get and the sooner we can get it I think22the better off we can be.with the interest rates,sure weI am notthat weI just think that from aas we get ready fortake months,the more information we23Thank you very much.24Thank you, Mr.25SECRETARY GRAMIAN:Chairman.Thank you.
1112MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:Representative Austin Davis.REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS:34Thank you,M r . Chai r m a n .5Madam Secretary,thank you for6joining us today.7start off by saying,8Au t h o r i t y B o a r d in Al l e g h e n y C o u n t y , a n d ma s s9transit,in our community and our region is a10lifelinefor many working —11class12represent,You know,I just want toI sit on the Portand struggling —families particularly in the area that Ithe Mon Valley.You know,13the pandemic has certainly14changed everything —15government sector.16bit about what you see the future of mass17transit18cliff t h a t ’s coming up, pending the exiting of19the pandemic,So,looking like,can you talk a littlepending the fundingall of thosefactors?SECRETARY GRAMIAN:2021everything across ourSo,thank you forthat question.The mass transit2223critical24mentioned,25well as SEPTA,is in a verysituation right now,especially,youAllegheny County port authority,asand w e ’re very concerned about
121the future of these two major transit agencies2within our state.3We were delighted that the -- we're4among the list of,you know,agencies5receiving some relief through the CARES Act.6But this is a temporary fix for the time7being,8going to happen once Act 44 expires,9in 2022,and we're very concerned about what'swhich isand what kind of source of funding we10can identify to replenish the funding that's11going currently to the public transit.12know,13the capital program,14programs.15replacement of funding for Act 44.16As youmaj ority of the money is going towardssome towards operationalBut we are very concerned about theWhat you mentioned about the impact17of the COVID-19 on the transit agencies has18been huge.19understand SEPTA is losing a million dollars20of revenue on a daily basis.21not much different in terms of percentage of22the revenue with the Allegheny transit agency.23W e 're very concerned about the future and the24-- whether the transit system is going to go25back into what it used to be in terms ofIt's been huge.And,you know,II'm sure it's
131providing services that they used to with the2ridership before COVID-19.3extremely hard,4they gain the confidence of the public so5public6agencies.7get vaccinated,8vaccinated,9things are going to go back to normal.T h e y ’re workingas you know,to make sure thatfeels comfortable using the transitObviously,as people are going tothe transit riders getthe operatorsget vaccinated,But10until then,11this is going to impact the services that are12being provided by the transit agencies,13transit agencies.w e ’re very concerned about howmajorYou may have heard the testimony that1415was given by General Manager Leslie Richards,16and s h e ’s talking about a number of different17things to be able to manage,18unfortunate situation,19cutting services and lines20whole bunch of other things.21taking -- majority of the people who are22actually taking these transit services,23depend on the transit24jobs,25essential workers.you know,you know,theincludingand furloughsand aPeople who aretheyservices to get to theirto their schools.A lot of them areSo, w e ’re very concerned
141about t h a t .2W e ’re putting a group together.I t ’s3being evaluated at the nationallevel as well4as state level on how this COVID-19 is going5to impact the behavior of the public in terms6of their confidence7agencies,8until then,9know,level of using the transitand w e ’re hoping it comes back.we need to make sure that,first of all,youthere is enough funding10available,11operational costs,12want to make sure that,13condition and the states of good repairs14all their infrastructure is in place.16that they can continue with theirand then -- as well as weyou know,REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS:15ButtheforThank you.Thank you, Madam Secretary.17I j ust -- I appreciate you delivering18that sobering assessment of where mass transit19is.20and PennDOT to try to figure out that issue.21As y o u s a i d a n d I t h i n k I s a i d i n my e a r l i e r22comments,23folks.24in -- even in the fact that ridership is down,25for us to maybe rethink the people that w e ’reI certainly want to be a partner with youmass t r a n s i t ’s a lifeline to manyI think there might be an opportunity
151serving.2populations that h a v e n ’t been previously3s erved b e f o r e .4MaybeSo,i t ’s an opportunity to serveI think we,as a legislature,and5you,6work with the port authority and SEPTA to make7those changes.8partner with you, moving forward,9relates to mass transit.as the department,So,1011121314151617need to be flexible toBut I look forward to being athank you,as itthank you for theupdate.And with that, Mr.Chairman,thatconcludes my questions.MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:Our nextquestioner is Representative Struzzi.REPRESENTATIVE STRUZZI:Thank you,M r . Chai r m a n .18And good morning,Madam Secretary.19In the line item budgetfor driver20and vehicle services,there is an increase of217.4 million,22million in fiscal year 2 0 2 1 / ’22.238.4 percent increase.24program called Enhancing the Customer Service25Experience,taking the total budget to 225.8I believe.T h a t ’s anAnd that is for aAnd whileI certainly
161think that is definitely warranted,2top items we spend time on in our district3offices4services,5c a n ’t be addressed at the driver vehicle6center at the Indiana mall7with that.are dealing with driver and vehicleconstituentinquiries,issuesthatand other issuesCan you please explain how this89one of themillion dollars(sic)17.4is going to be used to10enhance the customer11provide12these things addressed without them having to13come to our officesandfaster and more opportunities to haveto deal with these issues?SECRETARY GRAMIAN:1415service experienceYes,thank youfor that question.There are a number of things that are1617happening with the d r i v e r ’s and vehicle18services.19about —when we talk about enhancing customer20service,it starts21into the d r i v e r ’s vehicle22we have,23make sure,24proper documents,25going to be spending a lot of time waiting,First of all,right,when they talkfrom the minute you getservice offices thatthe locations.when people come in,We wanted tothey havethey have -- t h e y ’re not
171going back and forth.2this triage for the customers when they get3in,4reviewed.5they know which line to stand in and where to6take the numbers,7questions,8the in-person experience.So,we have createdto be greeted and their documents get9We wanted to make sure,you know,and if they have anyto address that.The other thing is,This is part ofas you know,10we're actually digitizing —11services12customers,13that the customers couldn't do in the past,14now they're available to do it.15a credit card to pay for any services.available,you know.making electronicI should say,to theA lot of these servicesThey can useThe other thing that we wanted to1617make sure is,you know,facilitiesgetting18upgraded and updated for security reasons.19Those facilities that are actually being20strengthened and improved for the REAL ID.21That's another area where we're22money.spending the23The other thing that we're doing is,24we are upgrading the system -- the antiquated25system for DBS,you know,making sure they are
181merging into one system.2e-gov,3everything,I t ’s all part of theand there is one-stop shop forSo,4all services.essentially,some of these are5the kind of upgrades6doing to the d r i v e r ’s and vehicle7that has required some expenditure and8spending investment9and updatesthat w e ’reservicesinto it.REPRESENTATIVE STRUZZI:I believe,And it also10includes,an 11.6-billion-dollar —11is it an increase to maintain the photo12Can you explain that?SECRETARY GRAMIAN:13So, when you14mention maintaining the photo15what16been increased for several17now,18are being taken,19getting a new license or new I.D.20part of it.21index the cost22hoping to be able to do that,23some of that cost.2425I have to say is,fee?fee,the photothere is - fee has notyears.And rightwe are losing money for the pictures thatfor customers when they areAnd t h a t ’sAnd we are actually allowed tofor the photo.So,to recuperateREPRESENTATIVE STRUZZI:final question,sincewe areAnd just oneI have some time.Our
191Indiana driver licensing center in the Indiana2mall,3operating under extremely reduced hours,4extremely reduced services,5understanding that t h e y ’re actually car6pooling employees7license center to Indiana to staff the Indiana8center while we are making customers9Indiana travel to Punxsutawney or Greensburg10which I mentioned earlier,has beenand i t ’s myfrom the Punxsutawneyinto get certain services.Do you have any idea when the driver1112licensing centers are going to fully reopen?13It seems14pooling from one driver license center to15another when they could be fully open and16providing those same services right in17Indiana.18kind of foolish to me to be carSECRETARY GRAMIAN:So,are you19referring to driver license center or are you20referring to the photo center?21are centers that are -- people can go and take22their photos,23t h e y ’re open two to three days a week.24what we have done is we have opened all our25d r i v e r ’s license center as far as I ’mBecausetherebut i t ’s not a full center,andAnd
201concerned,but the photo centers are not open.2REPRESENTATIVE STRUZZI:3really -- people c a n ’t take their driver4license test at the Indiana mall,5previously could before COVID.6to actually -- these7Punxsutawney or Greensburg to take their test.8And as far as I know,9and it is a photo center as well.10Yeah,i t ’swhen theySo,they havekids have to go tot h a t ’s still the case,Just -- we need to get this stuff11reopened and stop sending people all over the12place to take these testsis my point.SECRETARY GRAMIAN:13Sir,yes,y o u ’re14right.15are open,16and distributing the resources across the17board to the state,18make sure that we are actually working19effectively and efficiently.but i t ’s also a matter of resourceto all the centers,REPRESENTATIVE STRUZZI:2021And we need to make sure all centersSECRETARY GRAMIAN:23MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:25Thankyou .2224Okay.toThank you.Our nextquestioner is Representative Krueger.REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER:Thank you so
211much,Madam Secretary.2us for these hearings3So,Thank you for joiningtoday.I ’ve got a question based on some4calls that I ’ve been getting in my legislative5office.6Pathways program that will7tolling for nine bridges8One of those bridges,9Girard Point Bridge,Last week,PennDOT announced aenact new bridgein the Commonwealth.Madam Secretary,is thea double-decker bridge on10I-95.11it is an important commuter route12who live in Delaware County in my district.13I ’ve got an economic concern about this and14also a traffic concern.And while i t ’s located in Philadelphia,for folksSo, my first question for you is1516this.17the Girard Point Bridge was put on this new18tolling program?19Was a trafficstudy conducted beforeSECRETARY GRAMIAN:Can you explain20exactly what you mean by the "traffic s t u d y ”?21The traffic study is ongoing.22w e ’re actually -- I can briefly tell what you23w e ’re looking into.24traffic study to make sure that there is25enough traffic on these bridgesSo,currently,We did a high-levelthat can
221provide the opportunity for us to create a2project within a reasonable toll rate.3that
transit, in our community and our region is a lifeline for many working — and struggling — class families particularly in the area that I represent, the Mon Valley. You know, the pandemic has certainly changed everything — everything across our government sector. So, can yo
